Truly Victorian

Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

I'm planning to make a ball gown type dress and want to use a corset as the bodice. Though the corset will be seperate from the skirt. I really like the look of TV110 and it looks like it would be fairly simple to give it a sweetheart neckline, and create a fairly modest outerwear corset. I have made corsets before using Simplicity 2966 but ended up giving up because the sizing drove me insane. The dress I'm planning will have a black velvet corset with some embroidery and beading, I want to use flossing on it, and then a black velvet skirt using cartridge pleating to give it a bit of oomph.

I'm about to buy the TV110 pattern but I was just wondering if someone could help with what size(s) I'll need to make it. I'm plus size with an incredibly short waist (I love corsets they mean people can actually see I have an hourglass figure LOL)

I'm heavy with a small bust In modern bras I'm a B cup at best
Bust- 45"
Unlaced Waist- 39"
Hips- 50"

Armpit to waist- 6.5-7"

So I get that you take 4" of the waist which would mean I'd use H for the waist and H- B cup for Bust, but then Hips would be at J. Is this right? Or is it a bit different from that?

I also wanted to ask about fabrics. I won't be using coutil, as I'm going to be putting a bit of money into some really nice quality velvet for the corset (the skirt fabric is just 100% polyester) and I'll probably use cotton for the lining, hopefully cotton twill though I'll see if I can find herringbone. So would I need a canvas layer in the middle to protect the velvet?

Oh and the dress isn't actually planned for something it arose from the fact I've always wanted a foofy dress, I have three months holidays strating next week before I go to Uni, and my mother has 10m of black velvet she wants to get rid of. Therefore a black velvet ball gown seemed the totally natural conclusion LOL.

Heather · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:54 am Post subject:

You don't need to know your size before you buy, which gives you lots of trial room at home to peg down your sizing options. But in general, it sounds like you have chosen a good starting point. The hip measure in the pattern is for high hip, not full hip, if that makes a difference. You will definitely need to shorten the corset,

As far as using the velvet, that should be just fine, but it will not take strain well, or hold the boning in. I would use a heavy broadcloth to line your velvet, and then use a twill for the lining. The twill lining will be your main strength layer, and the broadcloth will add stength, but not bulk, to your velvet. When you place your boning, be sure to slide it between the broadcloth and the twill.
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Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

Okay thanks for that, so I'll start with that sizing then for the mock up and see how it goes. This is the actual sketch of what I'm aiming for, the skirt will be synethtic velvet cartridge pleated to the waistband, all 6.3m of it LOL. Hey I should at least have nice hand stitching by the end.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/cutencoolcages/BlackBallGownresize.jpg

I've also been reading about grommets/eyelets/awls and wanted to ask about that. It seems the reccomended versin is to use an awl to insert 00 grommets? From what I can tell the two piece 00 eyelets I use are the same thing but I've always just used the tool thingamajig to cut the fabric before. So should I use an awl to make a hole instead? It seems like that would be difficult having three layers of strong fabric...

Bookwyrm · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:07 am Post subject:

An awl won't break the fibres of the fabric, which means that it will be quite strong. However, a tool thingamajig is alright as long as the holes it cuts are a little *smaller* than the shaft of the eyelet, or barely the same size. It's perhaps marginally weaker, but still pretty unlikely to tear out.
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Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

Apparently Mum has a tapered awl that would be suitable, I swear she's going to dig a few metres of spiral boning out soon.

I also have another question, in reagrds to boning. I'll do a mock up first using cable ties as boning so I can appropraite measurments but what sort of boning is best? I know Spring Steel should be used either side of the busk and either side of the grommets/eyelets but should the rest be spiral steel or spring steel? And with the TV110 pattern is bone casing required? Because if it;s not I can save rather a lot of money. I'm just trying to get a budget together of how much all this will cost, I really don't want to put more then $150 into the entire outfit (already have most of the material).

Oh and for the mock up, would denim sandwhiched between a light-mid weight broadcloth be suitable, or should I find a heavier fabric to sandwich the cable ties between. If the mockup works I'll probably turn it into a lightweight corset that shapes as opposed to reduces.

Thanks
Emma

Erin · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:09 am Post subject:

I used all spiral steel boning for my corset (excepting of course on either side of the eyelets), and it's mucho comfy, and provides plenty of support. If I'm careful, I can even sort of bend over, and I can drive. Inch for inch, it's a bit heavier than spring steel, but you don't feel that once it's on. If you feel you need extra support, just add more bones. Also, you won't need bone casing to make the TV110. The layers of fabric stitched together form the channels you need. If you're cutting your own bones, just make sure you've capped the ends so they can't poke through your fabric. Best of luck! And remember, patience is key Smile

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Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

*Impatiently waiting for her pattern to arrive*

The silly girl at Spotlight cut some fabric to the wrong mesuerment a few weeks ago. A fact I only noticed today when I got it out to make a skirt. So I now have some pretty fashion fabric for a corset mock up, and the legs of some deconstructed jeans for the strength layer. Might even have some canvas hanging around I can use as well... I'll bone the mock up with heavy duty cable ties and just sew the two front panels together omitting the busk for the mock up.

I do have another question though, how many bones would be suggested? I read 12-20 but would my size be closer to 20 bones then?

And would it be possible to bone the entire corset with the spring steel or are their particular places I must have spiral steel?

Heather · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:06 am Post subject:

In your final corset, more boning is better than less. So count on about the 20.

You can put spiral boning everywhere except the center front (should be a busk anyway) and the center back on either side of the grommets. I prefer the rest of the corset to be of the spiral myself.
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Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

My Pattern finally arrived!

I have another question though, with shortening the waist it states you should shorten the top of the corset if it;s just 1" and if it's more take half from the top and half from the waist. However I'm planning to make a corset that's outer wear, so should I just shorten the waist and the top by only 1" all up? I'll also be adding extra pieces on top to make the corset more modest, but that bit confused me...

Thanks
Emma

Heather · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:56 am Post subject:

You need to shorten the corset in a manner that make the bust cup start at the base of your bust. For some, that may be the top of the corset, for others that may mean the middle of the corset. It depends on your personal body shape. You said you were short waisted? The would most likely mean that you would need the cups and armpit area to be lower than the pattern is drafted for, and you would need to shorten the middle. Then depending on you bust size/shape, you may need to the shave the top off to change the cup depth. This is all separate from the overbust additions you want to make.

When you do your mockup, I would make the height changes as if you are making a standard mid-nipple height corset, and fit the main body to your liking. Cut extra 2-3" fabric at the top, so you can then fit the part over the top of your bust to suit your taste.

Does this help?
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Heather McNaughton

Costume Designer
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Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

I just measured myself again and am now even more confused.

From my underbust down to the 9" length measurement I'm 39" so then I wouldn't have to shorten the corset as it's the same meausrement all the way down? Then my bust is 44" and my hips 5" below the 9" meausurement are 49"

So should I just make my mock up with an H A cup, H for the waist and the hips between I and J?

WEll one things for sure, I'm learning lots LOL.

Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

So I made my corset mock up in the sizing I listed above and am wearing it now, but I do have some questions.

Firstly it totally flattens my chest, this wasn't totally unexpected as I didn't have much to start with, and I'll just stick padding in, but when the corsets tightened I end up with a crease/fold in my back under the lacing. Just my luck I can't get cleavage from my boobs but I can from my back Rolling Eyes

So I'll stick a modesty panel in, but is there any reason for the fold? like did I make a mistake putting the corset on or something?

With a 2-3" gap at the back the corset takes my bust measurement down 2" and my waist down 2.5". However with the bust measurements my boobs aren't exactly squished, I can easily still reach both hands in, fully tightened though the back panels meet at the bust and I lose any hint of boobs. Like I said though I can fix that with padding I just wanted to check I didn't make a mistake...

Heather · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject:

I'm sorry I missed your earlier post about the sizing. Though I am not at all sure what you are saying with the 39" and 9" measurement? This is where photos really help.

But in any case, the corset should not smash your bust at all. Nor should it close all the way at the top. I think in your case, the one is causing the other.

The first time you measured, you had a 45" bust, so I would go with that measure. So if you are using a size H waist, you could use the H/B-cup bust, and I or J hip.

The fold in your back is a given. The reason is that the corset sticks to your skin and then when you tighten the laces, all the skin is moved towards the center back. This is one of the reason that you want to wear chemise under your corset. Otherwise, the panel is a must.

When you tighten your laces, make sure that you focus the tension at the waist only. The corset should actually be loose at the top and bottom edges, with a gradual change to a tight waist. If your laces are sliding to even the tension all along the back edge, then you may want to think about using 2 laces instead of the one. Put a shorter lace at the top 3-4 holes, and then the long lace from there to the hip. The tighten the waist very snug, and the top looser.
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Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

I've been keeping the bust area loose, I was just curious to see how far it would tighten. With the two inch gap I have the correct bust measurement, but still look flat chested, but like I said, I don't exactly have much there anyway...

Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

I'm still debating as to the final corset. It's absolute hell trying to lace this one up, but at the same time the lacing is some sort of braid from a local haberdashery that cuts into fingers and certainly doesn't like to slide through the eyelets. I do intend to buy proper lacing, I just haven't got to it yet.

With taking the bust to a B cup (I made it with an H A cup) wouldn't that just make it looser? Like I said with the two inch gap it's already fairly loose at the bust, I can fit both hands in their easy at the top.

By the measurement what I mean is my bust measurement is 44-45", then immediately below the bust down to the 9" armpit measurement is 39" it doesn't slope in, it's just straight down until my hips begin to widen.

The waist and hips are fine for a waist reducing corset, I wore it today and it took the waist down to 36" and I'd say could easily go further... However that require same to have a 'maid'

So I'm thinking I may make the final corset a size larger so rather then sitting tight it sits looser though still firm at the 2" measurement. As I'm really struggling with tightening it correctly. I can get it in to a 4" gap and then need someone else to bring it down to the 2" gap at the back. Though a larger size would obviously not reduce the waist, though I think it would still give a nice shape...

So yeah still debating. It's certainly a wonderful pattern I love the hourglass shape it gives, it';s just exactly how I want it to work that's the question...

Heather · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:11 am Post subject:

Well, hmmm. I think there is still confusion on one of our parts about the 9" below the bust to the waist thing. If you are only getting 39" there, then something is not jiving. Or are you saying that the 39" is under bust? This is what is confusing me... It is most likely terminology, which is why a picture is so helpful. For a corset, we want to start with the corset waist at your own natural waist. Then it should reach up to your bust at the proper height. The proper height should be your full 44-45" bust measure, measured at the armpit level. The pattern is drawn for a person that is 9" from armpit (aka full bust) to waist. But the actual pattern itself is shorter than that because the corset ends below the armpit.

If you don't like your corset lace, then I would substitute it with a 1/4" ribbon. Ribbon is very strong and won't break, slides easily through the hole (sometimes too easily) and is easy to find.

Ok, so based on what I understand of your description, it sounds like the 4" reduction was too aggressive for you. In that case, go up to the I waist, and stick with H/B-cup bust. This will focus the chest expansion to the front and help keep the bust from squishing. The larger waist will shift the bust fabric around your body, and actually reduce the extra bust volume you are experienceing. Of course you can tighten the bust all the way down and flatten your chest. Bust tissue is very malleable and will move to almost anywhere you shove it. The idea of the Victorian corset is to not move it, only support and cradle it in a pleasing shape. I too am not very blessed in the bust department, so I understand your issues. My corsets just touch the bust at the widest part when standing naturally. If I lift my arms, I have about a 1" gap between skin and corset. I am not sure what kind of a gap you are seeing, or where the gap is in relation to the fullest part of your bust.

Did I mention photos would really help? You can PM them to me or email them if you don't want to post them here. I don't care what your age, size, or shape is. I just really need to see what is going on in order to give you detailed advice for your specific project.
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Heather McNaughton

Costume Designer
www.trulyvictorian.com
www.demifashions.com

Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

At the moment I'm having a disagreement with my camera, when it decides to cooperate I'll post pics...

Okay so to explain the 39" measurement, that's the measurement of my under bust all the way down to just before the hips begin flaring. I'm straight up and down there... So am struggling as to what part would be the natural waist since it's all the same measurement. So by going to the I waist what would that do as to overall measurements, would it still create some reduction? like an inch or so would be fine? and I want the 2" gap at the back.

I did get the over bust sweetheart neckline right so that's one step forward, and the corsets definitely doing what it's supposed to in regards to creating the hourglass shape, I'm just not sure I want so much of that shape with the final corset which will really just be outerwear...

Heather · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject:

Your natural waist is typically 2" above your bellybutton. Or just at/below your last rib. Or level with your elbow. Or if you bend sideways it is where you get a crease. Individuals may vary, but these are some general proportions.

The size I waist will make your waist 2" larger than the size H. It would be the equivalent of if you left a 4" gap at the waist, but still had the 2" gap at bust and hip.

Does this help?
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Heather McNaughton

Costume Designer
www.trulyvictorian.com
www.demifashions.com

Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

Yep that makes sense, thanks. I think I'll do that then for the final piece...

Avalon_Princess · Window Shopper Joined: 29 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

So I have pictures!

Can't say they are the nicest pics ever, but anyways...

Front

Side

Back

The lacings not perfect, my lovely mother did it for me, though I can't say there are many victorian maids with experience around nowadays LOL. Corseted the bust is 45" and waist is 35.5"